SA80 – the Most Accurate Assault Rifle
L85A1 rifle. Carrying handle and front sight instead of more common SUSAT sight
SA80 (Small Arms for 1980s) is the designation for a revolutionary family of assault weapons. On its introduction, the L85 Individual Weapon (IW) proved so accurate that the Army marksmanship tests had to be redesigned. The British Army uses the L85 Individual Weapon that replaced the rifle and sub-machine gun, and the L86 Light Support Weapon (LSW) that produces higher volumes of fire and is effective at longer ranges. An infantry section consists of two four-man fire teams armed with SA80s: three IWs and one LSW.
Both weapons have been modified in light of operational experience, and had a major mid-life update in 2002, which resulted in the SA80A2 series – the most reliable weapons of their type in the world.
One new Under slung Grenade Launcher (UGL), designed to be mounted beneath the barrel of the IW, will be issued to each fire team, replacing the Rifle Grenade General Service (RGGS) and 51mm mortar – significantly reducing the ammunition load the infantry section carries, while enhancing its capabilities. The UGL will be able to fire 40mm High Explosive (HE), smoke and illuminating rounds out to a range of 350 m to destroy, obscure or indicate enemy positions.
History
The rifle’s history dates back to the late 1940s, when an ambitious programme to develop a new cartridge and new class of rifle was launched in the United Kingdom based on combat experience drawn from World War II. Two 7 mm prototypes were built in a “bullpup” configuration, designated the EM-1 and EM-2. When NATO adopted the 7.62×51mm rifle cartridge as the standard caliber for its service rifles, further development of these rifles was discontinued (the British Army chose to adopt the 7.62 mm L1A1 SLR automatic rifle, which is a license-built version of the Belgian FN-FAL).
EM-1 prototype assault rifle
EM-2 assault rifle. Officially adopted (UK Army) but never put into service
In 1969 the Enfield factory began work on a brand new family of weapons, chambered in a newly designed British 4.85×49mm intermediate cartridge. The system was to be composed of two weapons: an individual weapon, the XL64E5 rifle and a light support weapon known as the XL65E4 light machine gun. Both designs were based on the 5.56 mm AR-18 assault rifle, which was manufactured in Britain by Sterling Armament Company.
Enfield SA80-IW. Designed for experimental 4.85×49 cartridge
In 1976 the prototypes were ready to be trialled, however after NATO’s decision to standardize ammunition among its members, Enfield engineers re-chambered the rifles to the American 5.56×45mm M193 cartridge. The newly redesigned 5.56 mm version of the XL64E5 became the XL70E3. The left-handed XL68 was also re-chambered in 5.56×45mm as the XL78. The 5.56mm Light Support Weapon variant, the XL73E3, developed from the XL65E4, was noted for the full length receiver extension with the bipod under the muzzle now indicative of the type. In this configuration both weapons underwent a series of evaluations, with a small batch of pre-production weapons being used by British soldiers during the Falklands conflict.
Further development out of the initial so-called “Phase A” pre-production prototypes led to the XL85 and XL86. While the XL85E1 and XL86E1 were ultimately adopted as the L85 and L86 respectively, a number of additional test models were produced. The XL85E2 and XL86E2 were designed to an alternate build standard with 12 components different from E1 variants, including parts of the gas system, bolt, and magazine catch. Three series of variants were created for “Environmental User Trials.” XL85E3 and XL86E3 variants were developed with 24 modified parts, most notably a plastic safety plunger. The E4’s had 21 modified parts, no modification to the pistol grip, and an aluminium safety plunger, unlike the E3 variants. Lastly, the E5 variants had 9 modified parts in addition to those from the E3/E4 variants.
After receiving feedback from users, addressing concerns and incorporating the several design changes noted, including adopting the rifle for use with the heavier Belgian SS109 version of the 5.56×45mm cartridge and improving reliability, the rifle was accepted into service with the British Army in 1985, designated the SA80 (Small Arms for the 1980s). The SA80 family consists of the L85A1 IW (Individual Weapon) and the L86A1 LSW (Light Support Weapon).
In 1994 production was officially completed. Over 350,000 L85A1 rifles and L86A1 light machine guns had been manufactured for the United Kingdom. They are also in use with the armed forces of Jamaica.
L85A1 assault rifle
Original SA80 weapons (both L85 and L86) were plagued with many problems, some being very serious. In general, L85 was quite unreliable and troublesome to handle and maintain, so, finally, in the year 1997, after years of constant complaints from the troops, it had been decided to upgrade most L85 rifles then in service.
The upgrade program, committed in years 2000-2002, was completed by the famous Heckler and Koch, which was then owned by British Royal Ordnance company (German investors bought the HK back in the 2002). About 200 000 rifles were upgraded into the L85A2 configuration, out of total 320 000 or so original L85A1 rifles produced. While official reports about the upgraded weapons were glowing, the initial field reports from the British troops, engaged in the Afghanistan campaign of 2002, were unsatisfactory. Most problems, however, were traced to improper care and maintenance of weapons, and for now the L82A2 performs fairy well both in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Other than the basic L85A1 variant, the SA80 IW also appeared in the shortened Carbine version, and in the manually operated L98A1 rifle, which got its gas system removed and a larger cocking handle attached. The L98A1 is used to train the army cadets for basic rifle handling and shooting skills, and the rifle is fired as a manually operated, straight pull magazine repeater rifle. The latest weapon in the SA80 family is the recently adopted L22 carbine, which is issued to tank crews of Royal Armoured Corps. This weapon is available in two versions, L82A1 and L82A2, the latter being fitted with additional Picatinny rail on the right side of front grip base.
L22A1 Carbine
The current L85A2 rifles are recognized as reliable and very accurate, especially when using standard issue SUSAT telescope sights. The drawbacks of the L85A2 are somewhat poor balance (which can be improved with installation of HK-made 40mm underbarrel grenade launcher), right-side only extraction and rearward placement of the fire mode selector.
L22A2 carbine
Description and Specifications
The L85 (SA80) is a gas operated, magazine fed, selective fire rifle of bullpup layout. The receiver of the L85 is made from stamped sheet steel, reinforced with welded and riveted machined steel inserts. The gas operated action has a short stroke gas piston, located above the barrel. The gas piston has its own return spring. Gas system has a three-positions gas regulator, one position for a normal firing, second for a firing in adverse conditions and the third for launching the rifle grenades (gas port is shut off). The machined bolt carrier rides inside the receiver on the two parallel steel guide rods, with the single return spring placed above and between the guide rods. The typical rotating bolt has 7 lugs that locks into the steel insert in the receiver, just behind the barrel breech. The charging handle is attached to the right side of the bolt carrier, and prior to A2 upgrade caused some problems by reflecting the ejected cases back into the action, thus causing stoppages. In the L85A2 configuration the charging handle was redesigned to avoid such problems. The charging handle slot is covered by the spring-loaded dust cover. The bolt and its extractor claw also were upgraded in the L85A2, to achieve more reliable extraction of the spent cases.
The trigger-hammer assembly of the L85A1 is also typical for a modern bullpup rifle, with the long link from the trigger to the hammer unit, located in the buttstock. The hammer assembly of the L85A2 was redesigned to introduce a slight delay before the hammer release when the gun is fired in the full auto. This did not affected the cyclic rate of fire but improved the reliability and stability of the weapon during the automatic fire. The fire mode selector is located at the left side of the receiver, well behind the magazine housing, and allows for single shots of full automatic modes of fire. The cross-bolt safety button is located above the trigger.
The barrel is rifled for a NATO-standard 5.56 mm ammunition, with 1:7 twist, and is fitted with a NATO-standard flash hider, which allows to launch the rifle grenades from the barrel.
The L85 is fed using NATO-standard (STANAG) magazines, similar to M16 type magazines, with the standard capacity of 30 rounds. Early L85A1 steel magazines caused a lot of troubles, as well as a magazine housing itself, which had a thin walls that could be easily dented, thus blocking the magazine way. Both magazines and its housings were upgraded in the L85A2 configuration.
The standard sighting equipment is the 4x SUSAT (Sight Unit, Small Arms, Trilux) telescope, with illuminated reticle. The SUSAT is mounted on a quick-detachable mount at the top of the receiver, and features an emergency backup open sights at tits top. The SUSAT allows for an accurate fire (mostly in single shots) out to 400-500 meters. For a second-line troops an alternative sighting system is available, that consists of the removable front post sight with high base and post protection “ears”, and a detachable carrying handle with built-in diopter rear sight.
The L85 can be fitted with the proprietary knife-type multipurpose bayonet. L85A2 rifles also can be fitted with 40mm under-barrel grenade launcher, using special handguard. Launcher is made in Germany by Heckler and Koch.
- Caliber: .223 Rem / 5.56 mm
- Cartridge: 5.56×45 mm NATO
- Weight: 4.7 kg empty / 4.98 kg (with loaded magazine and optical sight)
- Effective range: 400 m
- In service: 1985 – present
Manufacturer
Royal Small Arms Factory, Enfield / UK.
SA80 in Action
UK Soldier with L85
US Soldier with L85
[via Modern Firearms, The British Army, & Wikipedia]
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best assault rifle the british army has ever had….
I think so
It might be damn accurate, but I’d bet would that the SG-550 would take it out in trials. and though British guns designers have been pretty consistently years ahead of their time, thier manufacturing kinda sucks, giving many of their weapons reliability issues. the first video on this page demonstrates that perfectly.
I’ve used the SA80 (L85a2) in Iraq and it never jammed or had a blockage, the gas plug has several settings and needs to be changed for effective firing at high rates.
This page is out of date the British Army is currently upgrading the SA80 again, new sights and hand guard.
Check out recent footage of the Army and Marine Commandoes in Afghan.
we need a bigger round like the 7.62 becase the 5.56 isnt working in afgan and only a handful of troops are fighting at once with gpmg or lsw because the sa80 doesnt have anothe range
I’m surprised by the lack of a sniper in British troop formations in the Afgan front lines. I wonder whats in the pipe line for the L85A2 replacement…or start production again!?
hell i don’t give a crap if they tell me the sa80 is the most accurate assult rifle, i no its complete BS being fed to us by the MOD. Any day if i was going to was in iraq or afghan id go with the H&K G3, H&K 416 or the FN SCAR-H. These weapons being a shit load more simple than the sa80 and a shit load more reliable plus there being made by some of the greatest firearms companies in the world i gotta trust them lol. the G3 and FN becauseof the knock down power of there 7.62 calibre HK 416 for its ultra high reliability.
your post is the bs. a serving soldier just told you that the SA80 never jammed or had a stoppage. yet you apparentely know better than a squaddie- the best judge of equipment.
i have no clue what you are on about with “greatest firemarms comanies” the SA80 is produced by lee enfield, and remade by HK.
i really dont have any time for you. have you even fired this weapon?.
miles
the british army are equiped with the L115 sniper rifle made by accuracy international.
it’s a piece of shit
up yours with your bull-shit
I’ve fired a civillian M16 and civ AUG. Not as comfortable with the bullpup. A bit easier to steady aim with long rifle I personaly think.
To anti SA80: The G3 I am a bit dubious about, but of course the H&K 416 and FN SCAR-H are better guns as they were recently configured, where as the SA80 was designed in 1980. I know updates have been made but it would be very hard to upgrade them all to that standard. Although they outperform the SA80 GREATLY in reliability and range the SA80 remains the most accurate and cost effective solution for the British Armed Forces.
From what I’ve experienced; 5 years armed forces, 3 years armed response and 3 years in weapons testing I believe that the SA80 is a good choice for our (UK) armed forces but I would like to see it replaced by a new assault rifle soon, preferably either the H&K 416, solely for the environments that we are currently fighting in and will be deployed in in the near future, or the G36c.
The SAS like an H&K 417 and I see nothing wrong with the 416 for general use. The G36c is light, but short (9 inch barrel). Just don’t say Grendel.
ericsson: Have you ever heard of intelligent contribution?
and to all those naysayers of the SA80: This weapon only jams due to poor maintenance (its the same with all other weapons) the SA80 a2 is shown to be the most reliable bullpup weapon in the world. The superior accuracy more than makes up for the weight and the occasional flaws (all weapons have flaws). As for respected manufacturers making the weapon how about Enfield, Heckler & koch and British Royal Ordnance for the list. (they seem pretty respectable to me). ;D
It’s not the most accurate rifle. If it is, can it shoot 0.5 MOA ? The AR-15s produced by Les Baer are guaranteed to shoot 0.5 MOA, which is a requirement for a sniper rifle !!!
the first video shows forgien troops cross training with british wepons in the same way british troops do with dutch american etc. so given this is the first time those soilders have seen the weapon system their skills and drills arnt shit hot like they would be with their own rifles. ie stopage in the first video was caused by bad drills in particular fowarding the cocking handle rather than releasing it causing a double feed.
nowt wrong with sa80…now at any rate.
btw does anyone know if when fitted with a ugl you can still fix sticks?
The SA80 is a good weapon and the only reason it is hated by these ‘know it all’ nerds is because it hasnt featured in the oh so many video games that the M4,M16,AK’S etc etc have. i have fired the sa80 live and it is accurate with low recoil and can lay rounds down fairly quickly.
whoever said the L85 isn’t a simple gun is talking crap, im 15 and after a few months training last year can fire one accurately at range, conduct section attacks with the proper make safes and strip and clean the rifle withing 10 mintues. i could probably take one apart blindfolded now
You never can be too careful with a subject like this people need to take notice.
CCFCadetLcpl, same but i’m 14 and what cadet force u in? i know this must but a view that can easily be deemed as unimportant but in my view the manual rifle used for cadet training is extremly prone to stoppages due to bad cocking (que bad jokes and childish laughter). i’ve fired the lsw and a2 variant (which is semi automatic) and taken both of those apart. In my experience the lsw and a2 have never jammed and are very accurate
To the fat 12 year old american kids who commented on something they arent even old enough to talk about… do us all a favour and go shooting deer with your daddys pop gun, as you are qquite simply obnoctios arrogant little fat kids with your burger and fries fat arse bubbling out the sides of your mums computer chair.
Just so you know, playing computer games on your mums pc doesnt qualify you to comment on real life rifles used in real life situations. I have used this weapon in many scenario’s and numerous theatres, and you get what your given.
Any serving lad will tell you the (adult american soldiers) what you may become in a few years when you fail high school like most of them,, most of the u.s soldiers would trade the current u.s army issue kit for ours any day, cos its shyite (including the weapon.
So to round it all up your country is both disolusioned and ignorant.
Now sod off and get to bed before your mum gets back from the trailor park with uncle sammy.
Come on Nick, Ad Hominen? (Forgive the young brothers, for they know nothing)
It’s a Weapon, Shoots well in the hands of someone skilled and has advantages over others weapons of it’s type, as well as downfalls.
Politics Aside, we’ll say it’s not the most accurate, but I’m sure it’ll get the job done.
-Peace
Hy all. Im a hungarian and im interested in sa80 (a2). Could you tell me how often do you have to clean it and how long is it? Is it durable? I love this gun and i would like to know facts from soldiers who have used it
Sorry.i ment how long does it take to clean it*
While the L85 has been improved, I would disagree that it is “among the best” of the assault rifles of its class. Comparatively the best of 5.56mm assault rifles are the FN SCAR, G36 series, Galil, SIG rifles, and the Bofors AK5. Nothing beats the aforementioned as far as cost, reliability, rugged design, and flexibility. The L85, like the French FAMAS, immediately jumped on the bullpup bandwagon (take into consideration the L85’s predecessor was designed shortly after WWII) that began with Steyr’s AUG. Bullpups generally have inferior trigger squeezes, are the opposite of human ergonomics, and many designs have acquired reputations as unreliable (though that problem can be resolved with proactive maintenance not unlike the M16/M4 series). Also only one design i have heard of is switchable from right to left hand ejection and that is the superb Israeli Tavor (unless you count the F2000’s untested forward ejection). My point is: The British military is one of the most professional military forces on the planet and it, like the American military (who is fitterf–king around with the overrated M4/M16 series), deserves a rugged, reliable, simple, and effective individual combat weapon. Something in the lines of the FN SCAR, Remington ACR, or XM8 (im sure the legendary Enfield can design a similar equivalent for the UK like what was done with the multicam camouflage pattern).
Note: The assertion that American kids and adults are all fat, lazy computer mongers is a wrong one. Many of them grow up in rural communities, where it is legal in most states to own and carry firearms, including semi-automatic variants of the M4/M16 and other military style weapons (the european firearms manufacturers’ most prolific market is in the United States).
2 Note: Despite me not meriting the L85, I must merit Britain’s experimentation with true intermediate cartridges following WWII. MOD experimented with .270 size cartridges because they were smaller than .30 caliber (which had substantial recoil) and larger than handgun cartridges (which lacked effective range). Since NATO standardized the 5.56mm cartridge, the US military, as of a couple of years ago, began experimentation with .270 type cartridges (the phenomenal 6.5 grendel and 6.8 Rem SPC) because the 5.56mm lacks in performance amidst counter-insurgency operations. This proved that in the 1950’s, the Brits were years ahead of their time…so far ahead, in fact, that the US wouldn’t catch up until 2007 (despite ignoring abysmal performance reports of the 5.56mm in Vietnam!). The superior stopping power and moderate recoil of the 6.5×39mm grendel provides as a viable replacement for the 5.56mm and 7.62mm cartridges, significantly reducing logistical difficulties and increasing the effectiveness of troops on the ground.
Precision comes at a cost in assault rifles. Higher tolerances means greater precision and vice versa. The question is does the “best” come at a cost of a weapon that will jam at a vital moment. In Afghanistan the waunted m4 JAMNED BECAUSE OF OVERHEATING. The British Army isn’t in love with this toy.
Reliability trumps other virtues. The AK47 is soldier proof, few other weapons have managed this. It isn’t very good over 300 yards but few soldiers engage at this range, never have.
The HK 416, SG 550, G3 have been tried and tested. The SCAR sounds good but is undergoing field tests now with the Rangers.
as a serving soldier i can leave only one comment……………. leave it to the professionals to debate wether the SA.80 (to give it its public name!!!!!!) is good enough!!!! all ARM-CHAIR GENERALS stand-down……and buy a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK, my tuppence worth…:
Is the SA80 reliable now? Yes
Is it accurate? Very
Does it have all the bells and whistles now? Yes, Laser/Light module, Picatinny rails, Forward gangster grip, bipod, ACOG sight with CQB red-dot.
Would I have one again, given the choice? No.
This is why: Its now a good weapon, but its too heavy and cumbersome. I work in EOD and Iv got enough to carry as it is on top of everything I need to survive.
Secondly, having served in places and with people we don’t talk about (attached, im no walter mitty) , an M4/C8 etc type weapon is just easier to get along with. It has a change lever and saftey catch where you want it and its much easier to reload than the upside-down weapons. The accuracy thing is a bit of a red herring as anyone thats been in the real poo will know that we dont tend to do the whole breathing-trigger pressure-squeeze-follow through type shooting and more point and shoot with controlled single shots to win the firefight. I used to pick on a baddie, shoot at him until he fell, then shoot him again, then pick another. Watch any youtube stuff in afghan and see if you can spot anyone who would do the SASC proud…
To be clear, Im not an SA80 naysayer, i just would prefer a lighter, more ergonomic weapon with the magazine in the right place.
One fact that cannot be ignored is this: Anyone who has the choice NOT to use the SA80 in British Forces, chooses not to.
the most accurate assault rifle ? Prove it ‘cuz i havent seen any statistics or range reports yet. The Sig 55x, FN Scar, Tavor, Arx-160 are all more accurate and better than this piece of $%#%. British soldiers even say they prefer the canadian C7-C8 series (m16 “clone”).
yeah question for you pete
HOW WOULD YOU KNOW IF THE WEAPONS YOU HAVE STATED, ARE MORE ACCURATE THAN THE SA80, IF YOU DON’T KNOW ABOUT IT’S ACCURACY, IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN ANY REPORTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT
thought i’d like to share that
Look at the first video, that guys drill’s on the rifle are crap. Not one forward assist, bashes the magazine at the bottom, asking for a stoppage, and clearing that blockage is miles easier if you press the holding open device.
One thing i dont understand is this : Why oh why, do you little kids who watch dvds and videos on youtube about soldiers think you’re qualified to comment on ANYTHING to do with what we real soldiers do? Just because your gay-assed little computer games dont have an SA80 in them doesnt make it automaticaly the worst weapon in the word, on the contrary actually.
While im not the biggest fan of the SA80 by a long shot, its a fucking good weapon that does its job! and thats all that matters. And unless you take the weapon to an operational theatre where people are shooting at you, and your shooting back, youll never know anything about it, aside from what you can read on wikipedia. but spouting that shit off in forums makes you look like the little kid you are.
And I will say this, for those who love the C8, although the weapon has been beautifly designed, with all the controls in the right place, it leaves alot to be desired when it comes to accuracy and range, two areas where the SA80 happens to excel.
As a serving soldier, I believe that over half of you are talking shit. Looking down the list I see alot of posts commenting on weapons such as the FN Scar and the Tr21. However, earth calling to all you CoD players…the SCAR is still in testing and has not seen battle yet, and until it does we will not know how it will handle. The M16 looked fantastic and in tests was simple to maintain, as soon as it hit the ground in Vietnam all sorts of jamming and breach problems occurred. So to sit on your wheelie office chairs, the xbox probably on standby, and dictate to the world which rifle is better than which is fucking ridiculous.
The L85A1 had its problems, however these have been rectified with the A2, I have noticed the difference myself, though being a Cavalry soldier, I don’t do as much with them as the infantry, however I do enough to leave a comment. The other thing I will point out is that the G36 and the SCAR came way after the SA80, it is expensive to change arms as soon as a new one comes out, and why oh why would we take the G36K and not the G36? Why do we want a carbine, tank crews get carbines, I get a carbine! The infantry want something that can reach out and hit something and kill/ seriously wound it. And all this shit about the G3…come off it, its old and out of date, the British Army is bringing in a new squad based, single fire rifle that will be used in the same way that the Dragunov was used in the Russian forces (it wasn’t intended as a snipers rifle but as a weapon that would increase the effective range of a squad to beyond 600 yards) So the G3 is not needed.
And to AntiSA80 when your in the Army you essentially get what your given, this isn’t woolworths, there isn’t a pick and mix, some people get the option for a GPMG but the Army doesn’t give a shit if today you fancy using the SCAR but tomorrow you would like to try out the G36 guess what they’re still going to issue you with what they have which is an SA80 in most cases. Get off CoD and at least read a book on this or join a Cadet force. You like the German weapons because they are made by good companies??? Well the SA80 was made by Enfield, a world renowned arms company and tweaked by your favourite HK, so do your research you ignorant little fuck.
Thank you and good day
Hi there, I found your blog via Google while searching for first aid for a heart attack and your post looks very interesting for me.
in my 11 years of service in the US Army i have trained on a lot of different weapons. i personally like the l85a2 its a good weapon. my only issue with it is ergonomics, having to move my hand from the front grip to drop a spent mag then reach into my ammo pouch for a replacement, then load and return to the ready position takes to long. in a cqc situation or when some one is shooting at you it seems like forever. with my m4 i could change mags in a fraction of the time.
the new top dogs in the assalt rifle class are the robinson XCR, the bushmaster ACR, and the fn scar.
i own a robinson XCR, 18″ barrel in the 6.8 rem spc. cal(way better than the shitty 5.56) i would have given my left nut to take this gun with me to iraq or afganistan. it is an infantrymen’s wet dream. :) way better than anything i was issued or got to train with.
as for the most accurate assalt rifle in use by a military in todays wars i would have to go with the old m14. 800m effective range 7.62×51nato great stopping power but if your not socom you cant have one. sorry legs
I agree with the EOD guy above, since H&K improved it, it does now work reliably and they are accurate (hardly surprising given the thickness of the barrel), however the SA80 is heavier than the L1A1 SLR it replaced and it’s poorly balanced with all the weight to the rear. I used to hate and despise the SLR during FIBUA exercises, it was too bloody long plus they were all worn out in my unit. The SA80 is nice and short but it’s just too butt heavy for my liking and too heavy overall. There were plenty of other rifles around when it was adopted that were lighter and still shorter than the SLR. I’ve used the French FA MAS G2 and that is a much better bullpup rifle overall imv (I’m not a big fan of the AUG but overall it is better as well). I notice the Jamaican Defence Forces have ditched the SA80 and gone to the M16A2 and also UK Special Forces don’t use it either, they use the Diemaco L119A1 SFW.
The one thing no-one ever mentions is the Meccano holes in the receiver that let all sorts of shit in around the barrel, I hate that. And the newer recessed magazine release is too difficult to use and the “improved” trigger that came out in the late 80s is too wide.
guys has anyone tried the ARX-160 , i did and i assume is far better than the SA80 and the sig 550 put together
I have to agree with a few statements made in here:
If you’re experience and knowledge of the weapons mentioned here are purely based on wikipedia and CoD; Shut up, you ignorant little twat and go to bed before mummy founds out your up past your bed time.
Now to the 5.56 ammo issue:
Yes, when trying to engage targets past 600 meters it’s not very effective, yes, when using a short barrel the stopping power is questionable. But, when using a barrel no shorter than 16.5 inches(419mm) it does yaw upon entering a targets body, and stopping power increases. At ranges over 600 meters, an infantry squad is typically going to use a gpmg, or a 7.62 marksman weapon to engage those ak-weilding rag heads.
Im not saying I would protest if my particular armed forces where to switch to 6.8 or 6.5 mm round, but due to NATO, that’s not gonna happen any time soon.
And alot of promesing developments is being made to 5.56 platform.
A heavier 77grain 5.56 round was introduced a few years back, capable of making acurate shots at 700 meters. The USMC is currently testing the M855A1 round which hace been proved to outperform the NATO 7.62 Ball against certain types of targets, and the french has developed a revolutionary round for they’re future standard infantry weapon with a maximum range of up to 1300 meters(early testing and protype stage).
The french round is apparantly capable of being fired through a 5.56 platform. Not sure if you would need a whole lot of modification on exsisting 5.56 weapons to fire it or not though.
All im saying is, be patient and see what happens during the next few years with the newly designed 5.56′es before wrting it off as an obsolete round.
I serve in the Norwegian armed forces and use 16.5 inch HK416, wich I’m very pleased with reliabilty and performance-wise.
PS: please exuse any bad grammar, it’s been a while since high school and english grammar classes ;)
sa80 seems to be a decent gun now….and it only took 30 years to get that way………IMO. the brits should have stuck with the SLR….they could have just modified it to fit their needs in whatever conflict they were in..could have saved alot of monkey and man hours doveloping a weapon that wouldnt be “battle ready” for several decades. FN stopped making FALs and their parts?? dident ROF make these things under license? couldent they still be making SLR parts if they had wanted to? anyways i have an IMBEL made FAL and it shoots like a dream….easy to feildstrip, reliable as an AK, accurate out to (and if your good, past) 800 yards and has stopping power dudes with SA80s could only dream of. the SLR is actually more suited to the type of combat now ongoing in afghanistan…..huge open spaces and engagements at ranges that the sa80 is rather ineffective at…
errrr “money and man hours” but i guess “monkey” would fit to some degree to as they spent decades “monkeying” with the sa80 to turn it into a viable combat weapon……
@john….. do you have any idea what your talking about?????? you say that, “the SLR is actually more suited to the type of combat now ongoing in afghanistan…..huge open spaces and engagements at ranges that the sa80 is rather ineffective at” do your homework before you make a fool of yourself, over 3 QUARTERS (75% for all you dumb shits) of all contacts in Afghanistan last year were between the ranges of 50-80 meters, a range well within the effective range of the SA80, i think you will find. And the reason why the Armys shoting policy has changed to put a greater emphisis on Close Range Marksmanship…..go on….. i fucking DARE someone to argue with me on this……